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Doublereed Archive - Posting 000010.txt from 2008/02

From: herb fawcett <herbgosia@-----.net>
Subj: Re: [DR-L] Bassoon plaques
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 12:33:18 -0500

My main reason for using the cyanoacrylate is to make the tube airtight. It
also gets soft when I heat shrink the single phase tubing that I use on my
own reeds. Some of the earlier experiments ended up with loose tubes, and
that solved it. The two phase stuff is just no problem at all, but only
comes in black, so I cannot write on it.
I cut the Christlieb heated mandrel to a short fast taper. It didn't seem
like the heat was a great idea all the way up into the blades. I have used
the wax (beeswax or paraffin) when the reamed tube is persistently fizzy
(rare).
Please let me know your thoughts when you have tried the lanolin bit.
Take a look at this
http://www.johnschroder.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/MyWay/Box.html

Herb

On 2/1/08 3:43 PM, "Richard D Bush" <rbushidioglot@-----.net> wrote:

> Dear Herb (and fascinated list members....wink),
>=20
> So I might be on the right track sealing the butt end. Good. Would
> your reasons be the same as I postulated, e.i. to discourage capillary
> action?
>=20
> Sounds like any bees wax should be applied with a stubby holding
> mandrel, rather than a long, pointed forming mandrel. Making one of
> those to fit on the end of the soldering iron would be an easy task. I
> could even do it with a file, a hunk of brass rod and then tap it for
> whatever common die would thread the new tip onto the iron.
>=20
> I truly don't yet know if this pure lanolin will degrade the reed. My
> friend, who suggested I try it, is a very fine woodwind doubler,
> playing ALL the woodwinds. His main double reed is oboe but he still
> can play well enough on bassoon to do a smooth chromatic scale without
> having to refer to a fingering chart. His clarinet and sax playing are
> exceedingly good. Come to think of it, his flute playing sounds like a
> flute player playing flute. Hi, Dr. Greg Wheeler, if you're tuning in
> on this thread.
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> All I can say is that I plan on trying it out for myself. I'll happily
> report to all what I find. Life's too short to be keeping secrets.
>=20
> While vodka might be relatively ineffective at fighting fungus, it
> would be my first choice to go with orange juice.
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> Ya, I've forgotten just about everything at one time or another. I've
> forgotten music, reeds, mouthpieces left on the repair bench...you
> name it and I've done it. Why do you think I even mentioned it...been
> there=8Bdone it.
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> I use to have a book published by the Gentleman who developed the Reed-
> Mate=81 box for single reeds. Right now, I can't find it. Could have
> loaned it to a student, not realizing it would be on the no return
> plan. That's happened a lot through the decades. Done that too!
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> Nice to hear from you, especially because I respect and appreciate all
> that you know.
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> Yours truly,
> Richard Bush
>=20
>=20
> On Feb 1, 2008, at 11:51 AM, herb fawcett wrote:
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> Richard,
> I seal the tube after it has dried for several days on the peg. I use
> cyanoacrylate and then put a two phase shrink tube on the butt over
> the wire
> and up to the second wire. If a reed leaks after that I also use the
> Christlieb tool to infuse some beeswax into the bore. Getting it up
> into the
> vibrating part of the reed has not had good effect for me so I avoid
> that
> carefully - in fact, these things rarely leak with the Herzberg bevel
> and a
> diamond reamer.
> Years ago, I read that oil of any sort (lanolin) on a reed will
> degrade it
> and I have avoided it. I would love to hear more about such stuff; I
> avoid
> using mouth rinses which are flavored with essential oils for this
> reason.
> Chlorhexidine is expensive and Vodka is relatively ineffective.
> My personal use reeds are usually rinsed after use, and always dried
> with
> the box open on my desk; never in the case. Because of the possibility
> (it
> happened once to me) of forgetting the reeds, I have a case of three
> very
> dry reeds in the case, and they will get me through any but the most
> demanding situations, although I might have to work a little harder
> than I
> wish. The "Rite" is out of the question in that circumstance.
> Reeds do die from the action of salivary amylase, and enzyme that
> converts
> insoluble starches into soluble (and digestible) sugars. It is
> inactive in a
> dry state and that is why I tell my students (and reed clients) to be
> sure
> their reeds dry between uses. I have absolutely no problem with molds
> and
> fungus that I knew in Philadelphia. This may be due to the salubrious
> climate in California or because of the careful attention I pay to
> drying
> the reeds, but I doubt that the UV has much to do with it. I tried the
> saline box for constant humidity and the reeds did stay in a sort of
> useful
> condition, but it was just one more thing to mess with and I found it
> unnecessary and salty. As Garfield said, a little garlic and olive oil
> can
> make the worst reed useful, but not musical.
> How can I learn more about the Reed-Mate system? Lanolin"
> Best,
> herb
>=20
>=20
> On 2/1/08 9:32 AM, "Richard D Bush" <rbushidioglot@-----.net> wrote:
>=20
>> I hesitate to even open my mouth and keep company with the likes of
>> Herb and Dr. Weait,
>>=20
>> First, I hope I'm not jumping in too obviously unprepared, as I've not
>> yet read everything that has been contributed to this thread. I will.
>> Also, if my comments are so far off topic that they cause the
>> discussion to change course, I apologize for that right now.
>>=20
>> I too use one of the late Don Christlieb's soldering iron mandrels,
>> but for a slightly different reason. Once heated, I melt its long
>> forming mandrel tip into a brick of bees wax and use the melted wax on
>> the hot mandrel to seal and impregnate the wax into the tube and butt
>> end of the cane. Bees wax provides an outstanding grip to the tube and
>> really grabs the bocal. Also important, is that bees wax eliminates
>> seam leaks.
>>=20
>> I also believe that sealing the butt end of the reed reduces or
>> discourages nature's phenomenon of capillary action. This, of course,
>> is how liquids and sap travel hundreds of feet into the air to give
>> sequoias and all other trees, plants and especially the cane we use
>> their needed moisture By sealing off the back end of these tubules,
>> the tubules become, in affect, dead end streets, or more accurately,
>> tubes capped at one end. This eliminates or radically diminishes
>> capillary action. I feel this is good for the cane and extends its
>> useful life as a reed because it slows down the accumulation of the
>> lime and other hard mineral deposits that are natural components of
>> saliva. I do believe that as reeds become increasingly impregnated
>> with these minerals, they stiffen and loose their ability to flex and
>> play with full resonance. Tea kettles, on the other hand, when full of
>> lime deposits, continue to sing until the singing hole itself clogs
>> with the lime build-up.
>>=20
>> A second reason often given as an explanation of why reeds get old is
>> the fact that saliva is full of enzymes that chemically break down
>> meat and vegetable matter. Saliva and chewing are the first two steps
>> of digestion for most of the animal kingdom, including people. We must
>> live with this fact, but do have the option of rinsing and back-
>> flushing our reeds with fresh, fast running water when playing
>> concludes.
>>=20
>> A third factor that degrades and eventually kills reeds is the
>> physical trauma the cane goes through as it vacillates through each
>> dry to wet and then wet to dry cycle. Microscopically, the fibers tear
>> and/or are stretched as moisture is introduced and then taken away.
>> This is the theory held by the gentleman who invented a series of
>> single reed cases that maintain reeds to a near playing level of
>> moisture. The
>> Reed-Mate=81 reed holder has a bottom compartment that holds a mix of
>> hygro-based materials designed to do just such a job. Charcoal is one
>> of the ingredients. The Charcoal 'sweetens' the air and discourages
>> things that grow and crawl in the dark. Rock salt, which is highly
>> hygroscopic (moisture soaking and releasing) is another. In fact
>> ingredient. There seems to be a third ingredient, but I don't know
>> what it is.
>>=20
>> Another part of the Reed-mate=81 system is the fact that the lexan cast
>> containers are clear. The inventor suggests that his reed cases be
>> left out of the instrument cases and put somewhere in the room so that
>> UV light will also discourage fugal growth.
>>=20
>> I have some customers who swear by this system and claim that their
>> reeds last much, much longer. The down side is showing up to a gig and
>> suddenly remembering that your reeds are home in the window sill. If
>> you go this route and devise a similar type of box for your oboe or
>> bassoon reeds, have the whole humidor system tied to the instrument
>> case with a piece of string!
>>=20
>> I'm also experimenting with using a prep on some of the reeds I make.
>> This will be a field test of personally kept and used samples, not
>> anything I'll be selling commercially. A musician friend who also
>> likes the above Reed-Mate=81 system, has taken it a step further by
>> rubbing pure lanolin into his single clarinet and saxophone reeds. He
>> claims the same deal....the reeds retain moisture and therefore,
>> aren't subjected to the extremes of the wet-dry cycle. The product is
>> called Lansinoh and is a high grade of pure lanolin sold to breast
>> feeding mothers. It can be found in stores in the section devoted to
>> baby bottles, and similar nursery supplies.
>>=20
>> I cannot yet report any results from trying this on any bassoon reeds
>> because I've only begun the testing. Will report later.
>>=20
>> Dear Chris Weait, who's reed dimensions I use according to your book,
>> Bassoon Reed-making: A Basic Technique,
>>=20
>> I would also be interested in your comments about the wet-dry theory
>> and the lanolin rub down variation of this theory.
>>=20
>> Yours truly,
>> Richard Bush
>>=20
>> P.S. To any customers reading this and waiting to hear from me about
>> filling back orders for reeds...I had a computer crash and lost all my
>> address book and contact info. Please contact me again so I can put
>> you on my list of orders to be filled. Thanks!
>>=20
>> Also, I'm hoping to meet many of you from July 22-26, in Provo, Utah.
>> I've got to re-up my membership and pay my entry fees and I'm there,
>> since I live but two hours north in Ogden, Utah...Yey!
>>=20
>>=20
>> On Jan 31, 2008, at 4:23 PM, herb fawcett wrote:
>>=20
>> Chris,
>> I use the black plaque also (for the same reasons), but spend most of
>> the
>> time with the clear one. Tried the lighted plaque idea and found it
>> might be
>> useful in a pit, but not much help in my lighted room. I prefer to
>> use the
>> shielded light behind the reed. The blade which is on the "away" side
>> has
>> little to no effect on what is revealed. I also have one of
>> Christlieb's
>> lighted mandrels, and sometimes use it if I am really getting picky.
>> His
>> heated mandrel is invaluable for me in shaping blanks.
>> Herb
>>=20
>>=20
>> On 1/31/08 1:07 PM, "chrisweait@-----.com> wrote:
>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: herb fawcett <herbgosia@-----.net>
>>> To: doublereed@-----.org>
>>> Sent: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 1:45 pm
>>> Subject: Re: [DR-L] Re: Reed Making
>>>=20
>>> Dear bassoonists, I need to amend my friend Herb Fawcett's statement:
>>>=20
>>>> the clear plastic plaque (I believe originated by Chris Weait)
>>>=20
>>> I did not originate that idea. I learned about it from Don Christlieb
>>> who sold a lighted mandrel along with many other useful reed tools
>>> through Christlieb Products (still in business!)
>>>=20
>>> Since the thread is about plaques: the plaque I recommend is black
>>> plastic made by Rieger. Might be the least expensive one available.
>>> It
>>> is large for a bassoon plaque - some might call it a contra plaque. I
>>> want the plaque to completely support the entire blade and both blade
>>> edges as I work on the reed in order to avoid thinning the edges too
>>> much at any point. The black color makes it very easy to assess the
>>> thickness and taper of the balde edges. Best wishes, Christopher
>>> Weait
>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> PLEASE NOTE MY NEW E-MAIL ADDRESS effective now:
>>>=20
>>> chris@-----.com
>>>=20
>>> Christopher Weait, (Emeritus Professor of Bassoon, The Ohio State
>>> University School of Music)
>>> 272 Longfellow Ave. Worthington Ohio 43085-3021 USA
>>> tel. 614/885-6633
>>> chrisweait@-----.com
__
>>> ___
>>> Author of "Bassoon Strategies for the Next Level", "Bassoon Scales
>>> for
>>> Reading", "Oboe Scales for Reading", "Bassoon Warmups" (Emerson
>>> Edition) and "Bassoon Reed-Making, A Basic Technique, 3rd Edition
>>> (McGinnis & Marx Music Publishers)
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: herb fawcett <herbgosia@-----.net>
>>> To: doublereed@-----.org>
>>> Sent: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 1:45 pm
>>> Subject: Re: [DR-L] Re: Reed Making
>>>=20
>>> For bassoon reeds: I make them commercially for a few select
>>> performers.
>>> Very few things are indispensable. Knochenhauer and Mechler used a
>>> kitchen
>>> knife and shaped free-hand. They profiled on a broom handle. Their
>>> reeds
>>> were adequate for Schoenbach.
>>>=20
>>> Personally I have found a lighted plaque to be an enormous waste of
>>> time and
>>> money, however the clear plastic plaque (I believe originated by
>>> Chris
>>> Weait) saves a bit of time when I am using my 75W light as a tool for
>>> visualizing inequalities in the blades.
>>> I'd like to watch the manufacture of 5 blanks in a hour; I take a bit
>>> longer. What's the rush? Norm Herzberg was as expert as they get in
>>> reed
>>> making, and he was not that fast.
>>> The hand micrometer is another expensive tool, one which is useful in
>>> the
>>> beginning and when setting the profiler or buying gouged cane. It is
>>> hardly
>>> indispensable. The same thinking applies to hardness testers, tip
>>> profilers
>>> etc. All are useful if you make a lot of reeds. The important thing
>>> is
>>> to
>>> know what you want to produce and then proceed carefully. Never
>>> scrape
>>> cane
>>> away unless you know exactly what you hope to achieve. FIRST !!!!
>>> Adjust the
>>> wires.
>>> Some lucky players can play on nearly any old reed; the rest of us
>>> continue
>>> the struggle!
>>> Herb
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> On 1/31/08 5:02 AM, "Peggy Church" <peggychurch@-----.net> wrote:
>>>=20
>>>> We have a double discussion going on here- oboe reeds and bassoon
>>> reeds,
>>>> which is my interest. Give us a clue as to which kind in the first
>>>> sentence, please.
>>>>=20
>>>> My teacher is a very good bassoon reed maker and he can make 5
>>>> blanks
>>> in
>>>> an hour. I photographed his process to help me remember exactly
>>>> what
>>> to
>>>> do.
>>>>=20
>>>> The scrape is something else, ever seeking the perfect reed. He
>>>> has a
>>>> collection of reed models from some of the important bassoonists,
>>> which
>>>> gives us ideas about subtleties.
>>>>=20
>>>> He located a source for a neat little hand held micrometer for
>>>> precise
>>>> thickness measurements. This saves us a lot of guessing.
>>>>=20
>>>> I like using a clear plastic plaque because the light shines right
>>>> through it. But I am yearning for a lighted plaque. Does anyone
>>>> use
>>>> one, and if so, has it become indispensible?
>>>>=20
>>>> Peggy Church
>>>> Adult learner!
>>>> peggychurch@-----.net
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
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>>=20
>=20
>=20
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>=20
>=20
>=20
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>=20

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