Brought to you this hour by

Advertising and Web Hosting on Woodwind.Org!

Doublereed Archive - Posting 000006.txt from 2008/02

From: Richard D Bush <rbushidioglot@-----.net>
Subj: Re: [DR-L] Bassoon plaques
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 18:43:32 -0500

Dear Herb (and fascinated list members....wink),

So I might be on the right track sealing the butt end. Good. Would =20
your reasons be the same as I postulated, e.i. to discourage capillary =20=

action?

Sounds like any bees wax should be applied with a stubby holding =20
mandrel, rather than a long, pointed forming mandrel. Making one of =20
those to fit on the end of the soldering iron would be an easy task. I =20=

could even do it with a file, a hunk of brass rod and then tap it for =20=

whatever common die would thread the new tip onto the iron.

I truly don't yet know if this pure lanolin will degrade the reed. My =20=

friend, who suggested I try it, is a very fine woodwind doubler, =20
playing ALL the woodwinds. His main double reed is oboe but he still =20
can play well enough on bassoon to do a smooth chromatic scale without =20=

having to refer to a fingering chart. His clarinet and sax playing are =20=

exceedingly good. Come to think of it, his flute playing sounds like a =20=

flute player playing flute. Hi, Dr. Greg Wheeler, if you're tuning in =20=

on this thread.

All I can say is that I plan on trying it out for myself. I'll happily =20=

report to all what I find. Life's too short to be keeping secrets.

While vodka might be relatively ineffective at fighting fungus, it =20
would be my first choice to go with orange juice.

Ya, I've forgotten just about everything at one time or another. I've =20=

forgotten music, reeds, mouthpieces left on the repair bench...you =20
name it and I've done it. Why do you think I even mentioned it...been =20=

there=97done it.

I use to have a book published by the Gentleman who developed the Reed-=20=

Mate=99 box for single reeds. Right now, I can't find it. Could have =20
loaned it to a student, not realizing it would be on the no return =20
plan. That's happened a lot through the decades. Done that too!

Nice to hear from you, especially because I respect and appreciate all =20=

that you know.

Yours truly,
Richard Bush

On Feb 1, 2008, at 11:51 AM, herb fawcett wrote:

Richard,
I seal the tube after it has dried for several days on the peg. I use
cyanoacrylate and then put a two phase shrink tube on the butt over =20
the wire
and up to the second wire. If a reed leaks after that I also use the
Christlieb tool to infuse some beeswax into the bore. Getting it up =20
into the
vibrating part of the reed has not had good effect for me so I avoid =20
that
carefully - in fact, these things rarely leak with the Herzberg bevel =20=

and a
diamond reamer.
Years ago, I read that oil of any sort (lanolin) on a reed will =20
degrade it
and I have avoided it. I would love to hear more about such stuff; I =20
avoid
using mouth rinses which are flavored with essential oils for this =20
reason.
Chlorhexidine is expensive and Vodka is relatively ineffective.
My personal use reeds are usually rinsed after use, and always dried =20
with
the box open on my desk; never in the case. Because of the possibility =20=

(it
happened once to me) of forgetting the reeds, I have a case of three =20
very
dry reeds in the case, and they will get me through any but the most
demanding situations, although I might have to work a little harder =20
than I
wish. The "Rite" is out of the question in that circumstance.
Reeds do die from the action of salivary amylase, and enzyme that =20
converts
insoluble starches into soluble (and digestible) sugars. It is =20
inactive in a
dry state and that is why I tell my students (and reed clients) to be =20=

sure
their reeds dry between uses. I have absolutely no problem with molds =20=

and
fungus that I knew in Philadelphia. This may be due to the salubrious
climate in California or because of the careful attention I pay to =20
drying
the reeds, but I doubt that the UV has much to do with it. I tried the
saline box for constant humidity and the reeds did stay in a sort of =20
useful
condition, but it was just one more thing to mess with and I found it
unnecessary and salty. As Garfield said, a little garlic and olive oil =20=

can
make the worst reed useful, but not musical.
How can I learn more about the Reed-Mate system? Lanolin"
Best,
herb

On 2/1/08 9:32 AM, "Richard D Bush" <rbushidioglot@-----.net> wrote:

> I hesitate to even open my mouth and keep company with the likes of
> Herb and Dr. Weait,
>
> First, I hope I'm not jumping in too obviously unprepared, as I've not
> yet read everything that has been contributed to this thread. I will.
> Also, if my comments are so far off topic that they cause the
> discussion to change course, I apologize for that right now.
>
> I too use one of the late Don Christlieb's soldering iron mandrels,
> but for a slightly different reason. Once heated, I melt its long
> forming mandrel tip into a brick of bees wax and use the melted wax on
> the hot mandrel to seal and impregnate the wax into the tube and butt
> end of the cane. Bees wax provides an outstanding grip to the tube and
> really grabs the bocal. Also important, is that bees wax eliminates
> seam leaks.
>
> I also believe that sealing the butt end of the reed reduces or
> discourages nature's phenomenon of capillary action. This, of course,
> is how liquids and sap travel hundreds of feet into the air to give
> sequoias and all other trees, plants and especially the cane we use
> their needed moisture By sealing off the back end of these tubules,
> the tubules become, in affect, dead end streets, or more accurately,
> tubes capped at one end. This eliminates or radically diminishes
> capillary action. I feel this is good for the cane and extends its
> useful life as a reed because it slows down the accumulation of the
> lime and other hard mineral deposits that are natural components of
> saliva. I do believe that as reeds become increasingly impregnated
> with these minerals, they stiffen and loose their ability to flex and
> play with full resonance. Tea kettles, on the other hand, when full of
> lime deposits, continue to sing until the singing hole itself clogs
> with the lime build-up.
>
> A second reason often given as an explanation of why reeds get old is
> the fact that saliva is full of enzymes that chemically break down
> meat and vegetable matter. Saliva and chewing are the first two steps
> of digestion for most of the animal kingdom, including people. We must
> live with this fact, but do have the option of rinsing and back-
> flushing our reeds with fresh, fast running water when playing
> concludes.
>
> A third factor that degrades and eventually kills reeds is the
> physical trauma the cane goes through as it vacillates through each
> dry to wet and then wet to dry cycle. Microscopically, the fibers tear
> and/or are stretched as moisture is introduced and then taken away.
> This is the theory held by the gentleman who invented a series of
> single reed cases that maintain reeds to a near playing level of
> moisture. The
> Reed-Mate=99 reed holder has a bottom compartment that holds a mix of
> hygro-based materials designed to do just such a job. Charcoal is one
> of the ingredients. The Charcoal 'sweetens' the air and discourages
> things that grow and crawl in the dark. Rock salt, which is highly
> hygroscopic (moisture soaking and releasing) is another. In fact
> ingredient. There seems to be a third ingredient, but I don't know
> what it is.
>
> Another part of the Reed-mate=99 system is the fact that the lexan =
cast
> containers are clear. The inventor suggests that his reed cases be
> left out of the instrument cases and put somewhere in the room so that
> UV light will also discourage fugal growth.
>
> I have some customers who swear by this system and claim that their
> reeds last much, much longer. The down side is showing up to a gig and
> suddenly remembering that your reeds are home in the window sill. If
> you go this route and devise a similar type of box for your oboe or
> bassoon reeds, have the whole humidor system tied to the instrument
> case with a piece of string!
>
> I'm also experimenting with using a prep on some of the reeds I make.
> This will be a field test of personally kept and used samples, not
> anything I'll be selling commercially. A musician friend who also
> likes the above Reed-Mate=99 system, has taken it a step further by
> rubbing pure lanolin into his single clarinet and saxophone reeds. He
> claims the same deal....the reeds retain moisture and therefore,
> aren't subjected to the extremes of the wet-dry cycle. The product is
> called Lansinoh and is a high grade of pure lanolin sold to breast
> feeding mothers. It can be found in stores in the section devoted to
> baby bottles, and similar nursery supplies.
>
> I cannot yet report any results from trying this on any bassoon reeds
> because I've only begun the testing. Will report later.
>
> Dear Chris Weait, who's reed dimensions I use according to your book,
> Bassoon Reed-making: A Basic Technique,
>
> I would also be interested in your comments about the wet-dry theory
> and the lanolin rub down variation of this theory.
>
> Yours truly,
> Richard Bush
>
> P.S. To any customers reading this and waiting to hear from me about
> filling back orders for reeds...I had a computer crash and lost all my
> address book and contact info. Please contact me again so I can put
> you on my list of orders to be filled. Thanks!
>
> Also, I'm hoping to meet many of you from July 22-26, in Provo, Utah.
> I've got to re-up my membership and pay my entry fees and I'm there,
> since I live but two hours north in Ogden, Utah...Yey!
>
>
> On Jan 31, 2008, at 4:23 PM, herb fawcett wrote:
>
> Chris,
> I use the black plaque also (for the same reasons), but spend most of
> the
> time with the clear one. Tried the lighted plaque idea and found it
> might be
> useful in a pit, but not much help in my lighted room. I prefer to
> use the
> shielded light behind the reed. The blade which is on the "away" side
> has
> little to no effect on what is revealed. I also have one of =20
> Christlieb's
> lighted mandrels, and sometimes use it if I am really getting picky. =20=

> His
> heated mandrel is invaluable for me in shaping blanks.
> Herb
>
>
> On 1/31/08 1:07 PM, "chrisweait@-----.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: herb fawcett <herbgosia@-----.net>
>> To: doublereed@-----.org>
>> Sent: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 1:45 pm
>> Subject: Re: [DR-L] Re: Reed Making
>>
>> Dear bassoonists, I need to amend my friend Herb Fawcett's statement:
>>
>>> the clear plastic plaque (I believe originated by Chris Weait)
>>
>> I did not originate that idea. I learned about it from Don Christlieb
>> who sold a lighted mandrel along with many other useful reed tools
>> through Christlieb Products (still in business!)
>>
>> Since the thread is about plaques: the plaque I recommend is black
>> plastic made by Rieger. Might be the least expensive one available. =20=

>> It
>> is large for a bassoon plaque - some might call it a contra plaque. I
>> want the plaque to completely support the entire blade and both blade
>> edges as I work on the reed in order to avoid thinning the edges too
>> much at any point. The black color makes it very easy to assess the
>> thickness and taper of the balde edges. Best wishes, Christopher =20
>> Weait
>> =3D=3D=3D=3D
>> PLEASE NOTE MY NEW E-MAIL ADDRESS effective now:
>>
>> chris@-----.com
>>
>> Christopher Weait, (Emeritus Professor of Bassoon, The Ohio State
>> University School of Music)
>> 272 Longfellow Ave. Worthington Ohio 43085-3021 USA
>> tel. 614/885-6633
>> chrisweait@-----.com
>> =
>> ___
>> Author of "Bassoon Strategies for the Next Level", "Bassoon Scales =20=

>> for
>> Reading", "Oboe Scales for Reading", "Bassoon Warmups" (Emerson
>> Edition) and "Bassoon Reed-Making, A Basic Technique, 3rd Edition
>> (McGinnis & Marx Music Publishers)
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: herb fawcett <herbgosia@-----.net>
>> To: doublereed@-----.org>
>> Sent: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 1:45 pm
>> Subject: Re: [DR-L] Re: Reed Making
>>
>> For bassoon reeds: I make them commercially for a few select
>> performers.
>> Very few things are indispensable. Knochenhauer and Mechler used a
>> kitchen
>> knife and shaped free-hand. They profiled on a broom handle. Their
>> reeds
>> were adequate for Schoenbach.
>>
>> Personally I have found a lighted plaque to be an enormous waste of
>> time and
>> money, however the clear plastic plaque (I believe originated by =20
>> Chris
>> Weait) saves a bit of time when I am using my 75W light as a tool for
>> visualizing inequalities in the blades.
>> I'd like to watch the manufacture of 5 blanks in a hour; I take a bit
>> longer. What's the rush? Norm Herzberg was as expert as they get in
>> reed
>> making, and he was not that fast.
>> The hand micrometer is another expensive tool, one which is useful in
>> the
>> beginning and when setting the profiler or buying gouged cane. It is
>> hardly
>> indispensable. The same thinking applies to hardness testers, tip
>> profilers
>> etc. All are useful if you make a lot of reeds. The important thing =20=

>> is
>> to
>> know what you want to produce and then proceed carefully. Never =20
>> scrape
>> cane
>> away unless you know exactly what you hope to achieve. FIRST !!!!
>> Adjust the
>> wires.
>> Some lucky players can play on nearly any old reed; the rest of us
>> continue
>> the struggle!
>> Herb
>>
>>
>> On 1/31/08 5:02 AM, "Peggy Church" <peggychurch@-----.net> wrote:
>>
>>> We have a double discussion going on here- oboe reeds and bassoon
>> reeds,
>>> which is my interest. Give us a clue as to which kind in the first
>>> sentence, please.
>>>
>>> My teacher is a very good bassoon reed maker and he can make 5 =20
>>> blanks
>> in
>>> an hour. I photographed his process to help me remember exactly =20
>>> what
>> to
>>> do.
>>>
>>> The scrape is something else, ever seeking the perfect reed. He =20
>>> has a
>>> collection of reed models from some of the important bassoonists,
>> which
>>> gives us ideas about subtleties.
>>>
>>> He located a source for a neat little hand held micrometer for
>>> precise
>>> thickness measurements. This saves us a lot of guessing.
>>>
>>> I like using a clear plastic plaque because the light shines right
>>> through it. But I am yearning for a lighted plaque. Does anyone =20=

>>> use
>>> one, and if so, has it become indispensible?
>>>
>>> Peggy Church
>>> Adult learner!
>>> peggychurch@-----.net
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> The Woodwind.Org 2008 Donation Drive has started. Visit
> https://secure.donax-us.com/donation/ for more information.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> For personal help: email doublereed-owner@-----.org
> Doublereed is a service of Woodwind.Org, Inc. http://www.woodwind.org
>

------------------------------------------------------------------
The Woodwind.Org 2008 Donation Drive has started. Visit
https://secure.donax-us.com/donation/ for more information.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
For personal help: email doublereed-owner@-----.org
Doublereed is a service of Woodwind.Org, Inc. http://www.woodwind.org

------------------------------------------------------------------
The Woodwind.Org 2008 Donation Drive has started. Visit
https://secure.donax-us.com/donation/ for more information.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
For personal help: email doublereed-owner@-----.org
Doublereed is a service of Woodwind.Org, Inc. http://www.woodwind.org