Doublereed Archive - Posting 000088.txt from 2007/02

From: herb fawcett <herbgosia@-----.net>
Subj: Re: [DR-L] Blown out (was: "Age of my English Horn")
Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2007 21:28:56 -0500

Your suggestion about bore:tone-hole distance is certainly right on with
what Chip Owen explained about the bassoon some months back. Moving holes is
not as simple as it could seem. The acoustics are far more complex than that
simple computation. Glad that good old oboe sounds proper now. I would love
a bassoon made at 442. I mean, everyone plays sharp out here in California,
and my grizzly old Heckel is refusing to play that high, no matter what I
do. I can get the tuning A up to 442-444, but the rest of the notes go all
wonky.
Herb

On 2/3/07 6:43 PM, "Edward B. Flowers" <flowerse@-----.net> wrote:

> Angela, Phil,
>
> My Loree AJ-12 (circa 1936) started sounding good after David Teitelbaum
> did a lot of small things to it, including replacing most of the pads
> and rebalancing it.
>
> Now it sounds like a 70-year-old Loree, which is better than anything
> except my new Loree. It has a sweet, light, upper register and a buzzy
> lower register. The top joint tone holes are built up above the radius
> of the rather skinny body (shade of the AK).
>
> The curious thing about this oboe is that it is tuned to A = 442 rather
> than A = 440. The scale is smooth and in tune with itself. So I have
> tentatively concluded that this oboe is not blown out (that implies
> irregular intonation going up the scale), but rather produced for the
> Austrian market. From what I've read, it's impossible for the bore to
> shrink, taking the oboe sharp, without the note-to-note intonation
> becoming rough.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Edward B. Flowers (ob)
> New York City
>
>
> Angela Wells wrote:
>> Hi Phil and List-
>>
>> I am by no means an experienced technician (I'm almost finished with
>> the program at Red Wing), but our shop's general "overhaul" and
>> "repad" practices include 100% new pads and corks as well as a
>> thorough cleaning of the instrument. We don't try to save old pads or
>> corks even if they look OK. This is different from annual maintenance
>> of an instrument that is mostly in great conditon and needs only
>> adjusting and maybe a few pads and corks. But if you're paying for a
>> complete repad, that's what you get.
>>
>> To answer your question about spring replacement: in our shop, springs
>> are not replaced unless they need to be. Spring tension is adjusted,
>> and that's usually when you find worn out springs, if any.
>>
>> The bottom line, though, is that instruments leave the shop with good
>> mechanical action and an airtight seal when pads are closed very
>> lightly. Whether your oboe is 1 year old or 50, it doesn't matter.
>> Maybe more repairs need to be done to an older instrument, but when
>> you're done, all oboes are equal as far as the Magnehelic machine is
>> concerned. The adjustments are perfect, the tone holes are squeaky
>> clean, and the keys are properly vented.
>>
>> So, why does my 30 year old oboe play a lot differently than the new
>> ones I tried at IDRS a couple years ago? My experience playing newer
>> oboes is usually: ZOMG the scale is in tune with itself!!!11!! And the
>> high Eb sounds like a note! All of the notes have the same tone
>> quality (to the extent that this is possible with an oboe)! And it's
>> not horribly sharp all around! Wheee!
>>
>> And if we want to talk about bore warping: my oboe is noticeably bent.
>> As in, shaped like a rainbow. I'm not sure if it left the factory that
>> way, but it's quite a trip.
>>
>> I suppose my point is that as far as the mechanics go, it's all easy
>> to fix. There seems to be Something Else at work here. Something that
>> we don't know how to look for or fix. Something that makes my
>> overhauled (by a real oboe guy, not myself) oboe still not perfect.
>> Maybe it left the factory kind of sucking, or maybe it's a lemon, I
>> don't know because I wasn't even born until it was 6 years old.
>>
>> ~Angela
>>
>> ----Original Message Follows----
>> From: philfrei@-----.com
>>
>> Hi -
>>
>> I think the phenomina is real, that oboes do go out of kilter with
>> age, but suspect that the explanation (they are "blown out") is
>> spurious or some sort of short-hand.
>>
>> Here is what I have noticed: corks become compressed, pads become
>> compressed, springs weaken, residue can build up in tone holes.
>> There's lots of concrete things that can go out of whack. And maybe
>> the wood can warp a bit, too. Perhaps there are stresses that build up
>> that don't go so far as to "express themselves" as cracks, but do
>> create tiny misalignments. Also, are there changes to the inner wood
>> surface after repeated dousings with saliva?
>>
>> Now, I don't know to what extent repair people go to when they do an
>> overhaul, but generally, I'd assume a pad won't be replaced unless it
>> leaks (even though, being slightly compressed, the hole might be a
>> minute bit more open in resting position). Springs change over time,
>> too, but unless they fall out, are they replaced in an overhall?
>>
>> I'd assume a cork on a key lever won't be replaced unless it is worn
>> through, instead adjusting screws will be adjusted, if they exist. But
>> there are lots of corks that never come in contact with an ajdustment
>> screw, for example, corks on either side of the main A-flat key and on
>> the rod it connects with that limits the height of the A key. True,
>> there is a single adjustment screw on the connecting rod. But can an
>> adjustment at this single point optimally counter uneven compression
>> of these three corks? All three matter, as the A key's closure limits
>> the amount that the A-flat key will open.
>>
>> Interactions abound. Getting everything to match properly is a major
>> headache. I went through an experiment a while back to add some
>> tension to the A key, and found that repeated guesses had to be made
>> to adjust the G and A-flat springs to match in strength (so when
>> releasing these keys, they would come open together, not have the
>> stronger springed key open first). Each guess, each adjustment,
>> required taking the main rod off of the entire top joint as well as
>> the f-sharp connector. It took a couple hours to get the three key
>> springs to match up in a reasonable fashion again.
>>
>> I'm guessing "blown out" means this: the time and level of detail
>> necessary to bring the oboe back to tip top condition is not
>> profitable at normal repair rates. Or, the expertise to do so is
>> limited to a very few.
>>
>> - Phil Freihofner
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
>
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