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Doublereed Archive - Posting 000046.txt from 2007/02

From: herb fawcett <herbgosia@-----.net>
Subj: Re: [DR-L] Blown out (was: "Age of my English Horn")
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2007 19:56:20 -0500

Hi Phil,
With bassoon prices, your last paragraph would be irrelevant. However, a
very thorough overhaul (not restoration) of a Heckel bassoon (last time I
did it) was right around $1000, and well worth it. The twist and warp, if
within reason, could be adjusted with a proper reamer and I am sure Fox has
such things, maybe other makers too. It goes against my grain to dispose of
stuff that still has utility, and I have no direct knowledge of oboes etc.,
but this discussion about "blown out" oboes reminds me of reed discussions
with clarinet players. It is not expensive to replace the oboe, and a full
overhaul/restoration is probably inconvenient. Clarinet players usually
haven't a clue about their reeds, which are uncommonly simple to adjust,
because it is easier and reasonably economical to just buy new ones when a
few deft strokes in the right place could yield a "cadenza" reed.
Some things don't make clear sense to me. All the factors you mention appear
to be measurable and correctable. Residue is removable, cracks can be
sealed, bores corrected, corks replaced etc. Is there a change in the
structure of the wood? I doubt it. Maybe dryness or a need for oil. Does
anyone oil the oboe by soaking, as is occasionally done on very old and
lovely bassoons? Maybe the reality of economics makes it inefficient.
Herb

On 2/3/07 3:38 PM, "philfrei@-----.com> wrote:

> Hi -
>
> I think the phenomina is real, that oboes do go out of kilter with age,
> but suspect that the explanation (they are "blown out") is spurious or
> some sort of short-hand.
>
> Here is what I have noticed: corks become compressed, pads become
> compressed, springs weaken, residue can build up in tone holes. There's
> lots of concrete things that can go out of whack. And maybe the wood
> can warp a bit, too. Perhaps there are stresses that build up that
> don't go so far as to "express themselves" as cracks, but do create
> tiny misalignments. Also, are there changes to the inner wood surface
> after repeated dousings with saliva?
>
> Now, I don't know to what extent repair people go to when they do an
> overhaul, but generally, I'd assume a pad won't be replaced unless it
> leaks (even though, being slightly compressed, the hole might be a
> minute bit more open in resting position). Springs change over time,
> too, but unless they fall out, are they replaced in an overhall?
>
> I'd assume a cork on a key lever won't be replaced unless it is worn
> through, instead adjusting screws will be adjusted, if they exist. But
> there are lots of corks that never come in contact with an ajdustment
> screw, for example, corks on either side of the main A-flat key and on
> the rod it connects with that limits the height of the A key. True,
> there is a single adjustment screw on the connecting rod. But can an
> adjustment at this single point optimally counter uneven compression of
> these three corks? All three matter, as the A key's closure limits the
> amount that the A-flat key will open.
>
> Interactions abound. Getting everything to match properly is a major
> headache. I went through an experiment a while back to add some tension
> to the A key, and found that repeated guesses had to be made to adjust
> the G and A-flat springs to match in strength (so when releasing these
> keys, they would come open together, not have the stronger springed key
> open first). Each guess, each adjustment, required taking the main rod
> off of the entire top joint as well as the f-sharp connector. It took a
> couple hours to get the three key springs to match up in a reasonable
> fashion again.
>
> I'm guessing "blown out" means this: the time and level of detail
> necessary to bring the oboe back to tip top condition is not profitable
> at normal repair rates. Or, the expertise to do so is limited to a very
> few.
>
> - Phil Freihofner
>
>
>> Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 15:30:32 -0500
>> To: <doublereed@-----.org>
>> From: "Kevin H. Moore" <oboetools@-----.com>
>> Subject: Re: [DR-L] Age of my English Horn
>> Message-ID: <001101c747d2$28617b90$d0f34a18@yourxhtr8hvc4p>
>>
>> It's not folklore at all. It's real.
>>
>> The top joint becomes worn down over time, affecting sound and tuning.
> Just
>> before getting my new(er) oboe in 1992, playing my old one had become
>> torture, literally. If I hadn't gotten a new one, I'd have had to
> quit. Yes,
>> it was _that_ bad.
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "herb fawcett" <herbgosia@-----.net>
>> To: <doublereed@-----.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 15:25 Hrs
>> Subject: Re: [DR-L] Age of my English Horn
>>
>>> What makes an oboe a "poor tired oboe"? Isn't "being blown out" just
> folk
>>> lore? Vibration is physics. Just curious.
>>> Herb
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/3/07 7:54 AM, "Angela Wells" <oneflute1oboe@-----.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yep, I have oboe number 96D. It has a nice clear sound, but it's a
> poor
>>>> tired old oboe. I'm excited about buying a new one as soon as I
> have the
>>>> fund$.
>>>>
>>>> Any site that lists serial numbers and manufacturers probably
> won't have
>>>> your instrument listed either. Knowing which Rigoutat generation
> built
>>>> it is
>>>> probably as close as you're going to get.
>>>>
>>>> ~Angela
>
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