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Doublereed Archive - Posting 000007.txt from 2007/02

From: herb fawcett <herbgosia@-----.net>
Subj: Re: [DR-L] QOD
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 19:59:17 -0500

My opinion of the use of the nuke was that whoever the adventurous enemy ma=
y
have been, the deterrent did its job. USSR was definitely on the move, and
we needed to finish the thing and make an ally of the Japanese. I have no
feeling of guilt in the matter whatsoever. I don't know where you got your
information that the war was effectively over; my father was a senior USMC
officer, and told me that there were serious preparations under way for the
invasion of the Japanese homeland. They, too, were preparing and arming the
citizens with sharpened bamboo sticks as well as one-time firearms.
Resistant civilians are the enemy. They were preparing to commit seppuku.
We just helped them out.
Herb =20

On 1/31/07 7:41 PM, "Dennis Thiel" <dathiel@-----.au> wrote:

> Matthew,
>=20
> I do not intend getting into a Holocaust discussions with anyone. I
> merely pointed out that hundreds of thousands of Japanese, mainly
> civilian women and children, were burned to death in two split seconds.
> Huge numbers also died in the minutes and years following, from
> radiation etc.
>=20
> This bombing was not to end the war ... that was already about to happen
> diplomatically. It was done to frighten the Russians, with an object
> lesson. http://www.lewrockwell.com/rogers/rogers205.htmld
>=20
> Nine million African slaves died on their way to America ... tossed over
> board in storms etc.etc. Where do we stop?
>=20
> I'd be much more worried by US use of Depleted Uranium weapons in
> Bosnia, Iraq and Afghanistan. Thousands of tonnes of DU sub-micron dust
> is now in the atmosphere, measurably floating on prevailing winds into
> all parts of the World. This wildly stupid activity may well bring life
> on Earth to an end. Daniel Ellsberg might agree with this.
>=20
> Dennis.
>=20
>=20
> Matthew Peaceman wrote:
>> Hi Dennis,
>>=20
>> "As was experienced by hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians."
>>=20
>> I hope you would acknowledge that there is a 'slight' difference
>> between using a weapon to stop a country that killed FAR more
>> civilians in its imperialistic quest to conquer its region (Japan
>> against all of the Far East) and creating factories to enslave and
>> then murder millions of innocent, non-aggressive victims purely
>> because of their religious/cultural origins (we are not even speaking
>> of their beliefs here) or sexual preferences. One may certainly argue
>> that all methods of killing are inherently, potentially immoral. I
>> think there can be no mistaking that. Comparing Hiroshima and Nagasaki
>> directly to Auschwitz (as you did) is flawed comparison. It
>> trivialises all of what Auschwitz symbolizes today. Following this
>> line of thought does not lead to a pretty place.
>>=20
>> I presume Ellsberg's use of the word 'portable' is taken somewhat out
>> of context here. If not, we have to assume that it comes from a purely
>> pacifistic corner. This is not the place to discuss whether or not
>> Pacifism is a viable response to every form of
>> political/military/terrorist aggression. But assuming the Japanese
>> were not going to stop the war in the Pacific because the rest of the
>> world organsied a sit-down or hunger strike and since they used every
>> weapon available to them to continue, it's sort of hard to accept a
>> plea of 'NO FAIR' for the use of the bomb. This would have been the
>> case in Europe against the Germans
>> as well, had we used an atomic weapon against them. We didn't have it
>> at the time so we just fire bombed them into submission. On the
>> surface and taken out of context, all terribly immoral....
>> I would rewrite Ellsberg's quote to "Every nuclear weapon is a
>> *potential* holocaust." Then your response would be acceptable.
>> Every genocide has its context. The word genocide (for which Auschwitz
>> has become a universal symbol) has a definition though. Webster/Miriam
>> Dictionary
>> Main Entry: *geno=B7cide*
>> : the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or
>> cultural group
>> Hiroshima and Nagasaki do not exactly fit into this catagorie.
>>=20
>> Matthew
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>> "Every nuclear weapon is a portable Auschwitz."
>>>=20
>>> -Daniel Ellsberg (1931) former American military analyst
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> ------------------------------
>>>=20
>>> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 15:31:12 +1100
>>> To: doublereed@-----.org
>>> From: Dennis Thiel <dathiel@-----.au>
>>> Subject: Re: [DR-L] Quote of the Day
>>> Message-ID: <45C01B90.9060601@-----.au>
>>>=20
>>> As was experienced by hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians.
>>>=20
>>> Many far more currently pertinent quotes of Daniel Ellsberg ... here
>>> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=3D/chronicle/archive/2004/=
02/29
>>> /CMG3R50LHE5.DTL
>>>=20
>>> Dennis.
>>>=20
>>> Oboeeee@-----.com wrote:
>=20
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>=20

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