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Doublereed Archive - Posting 000017.txt from 2006/02

From: herb fawcett <herbgosia@-----.net>
Subj: Re: [DR-L] RE: Ray Still/Heinz Holliger
Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 22:47:16 -0500

Oh no Mr. Picasso.. Both eyes on the same side of the face. That is just
wrong. Or oh no Mr Beethoven, start the symphony on the dominant... That
won't work. Art must show us a way out of the mundane.
We are fortunate to have it all to pick and choose from. Taste dictates our
preferences, and taste has a way of changing from time to time.
Some of the 1950s recordings on le basson were hard to listen to; some were
lovely. I think one can find weaker players on either instrument, basson or
fagot. The sound is a matter of taste, or in effect realizing that they are
in reality different instruments.
I love it all.
Herb

On 2/1/06 6:40 PM, "Rhondda May" <rmay@-----.com> wrote:

> Indeed, Wai Kit,
>
> American oboists tend to be rather parochial - it's the result of
> living in a very large isolated country. I heard a lot of what you
> describe when I was a student in the US. I'll never forget the first
> time I listened to the Das Lied von der Erde recording with the New
> Philharmonia - Sidney Sutcliffe was the oboist, and his playing
> absolutely knocked me over with its expressiveness and beauty. I was
> lucky to meet up with an experience like that as a young player,
> because it served to innoculate me against the more severe kinds of
> oboistic xenophobia.
>
> I was thinking more over the last 24 hours about this discussion and I
> realized there's something that I don't think anyone has mentioned. The
> kind of physical hand-technique that Mr. Holliger has is really a gift,
> a truly extraordinary talent. We are all encouraged, in every aspect of
> our lives, to "play to our strengths." If you have the kind of gift of
> physical technique that a person like Mr. Holliger has, why on earth
> should you NOT play a zillion notes? Why should you NOT commission
> works from every major composer you can, extending the range of the
> instrument farther than had been imagined? I would imagine it to be as
> natural as breathing. And there's a lot of music that the oboe world
> would not have but for him. The same can be said of Jennifer Paull, the
> champion of the oboe d'amore. One knows oneself, and one then goes
> forward. Think Paganini.
>
> Those of us without an extraordinary finger technique find our
> strengths and play to those. Fortunate indeed is he who is, as the
> Talmud describes: "happy with what he(or she) has."
>
> Mr. Still once told me about a conversation he had with Neil Black, of
> the English Chamber Orchestra. He mentioned that he envied Mr. Black
> all his Mozart concerti; Mr. Black retorted that he envied Mr. Still
> all his Mahler symphonies. Do any of us really like everything we have?
> Probably not.
>
> I put on the CD of Chicago and Reiner playing Strauss's Also Sprach
> Zarathustra last night, with this whole discussion still percolating
> about in my psyche. I remember Mr. Still's playing on this recording -
> there is a very small little section in the middle of this piece where
> the 1st and 2nd oboes trade off a tiny little lick that isn't very hard
> to play, but the difference in the way Mr. Still and the 2nd oboist at
> that time (Jerry Sirucek? anybody know?) played that lick is hard to
> believe without hearing it. That, to me, is a precis of what was best
> about Mr. Still's playing: the life, vitality, and rhythmic energy; a
> level beyond simple accuracy. To him, this was more important than Mr.
> Holliger's spectacular finger technique. But that was HIS gift, not Mr.
> Holliger's.
>
> Would I, poor little old ME, would I rather listen to those orchestral
> recordings than to Mr. Holliger's mountain of performances of
> showpieces and avant-garde works? Oh, absolutely! But that's just me.
> That's just taste. (Actually I think it's more than "just" taste, but
> let's not go into that. Whatever it is, it is individual.)
>
> Is one better than the other? Only to the people involved! To the rest
> of us they're like facets of the same diamond.
>
> We are awfully lucky, when you think of it, to have both these men as
> examples of what can be done with our poor little oboes and reeds. And
> the other great players of this and previous generations. All over the
> world.
>
> As to whether Mr. Still should have made such a remark.... no, probably
> not. But who among us has never said anything he/she shouldn't've?? To
> quote a dear friend: "...people are not nice, people are people."
>
> Best regards,
> Rhondda
>
> On 2 Feb 06, at 2:33 AM, Wai Kit Leung wrote:
>
>> Dear Rhondda,
>>
>> Thanks for your comments. I have to admit that I went a bit overboard
>> with my comment to Mr. Still's statement. I was disappointed because,
>> being a fine player and teacher that he was, Mr. Still shouldn't have
>> made remarks like that (and I really doubt if he could have backed
>> that up).
>>
>> It wasn't the first time that I heard a prominent American oboist
>> denigrating Mr. Holliger or other great European oboists. I was in
>> the masterclass of a prominent American oboist (whose identity I would
>> rather not disclose) and in front of a whole class of budding oboists,
>> she publicly denigrated Mr. Holliger, saying something to the effect
>> of "yeah his playing is flashy, but nothing more than that ... you
>> can't judge a singer, voice aside ...". Basically she was preaching
>> against the European schools of oboe-playing. We should bear in mind
>> that internationally (US aside) Mr. Holliger is considered by most the
>> absolute best (a view shared by top oboists, including Hansjorg
>> Schellenberger and David Walter). It is a very narrow-minded approach
>> by some in the US that whoever doesn't sound like their teachers
>> sounds bad. It's like "whoever is not with us is against us" (from a
>> certain presidential speech a few years ago).
>>
>> I think I have said more than enough. Let's sit back and enjoy Mr.
>> Holliger's (and others') artistry and enjoy their respective tones.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Wai Kit Leung
>>
>> ***********************************************************************
>> ****
>> From: Rhondda May <rmay@-----.com>
>> To: doublereed@-----.org
>> Subject: Re: [DR-L] RE: Ray Still/Heinz Holliger
>> Sent: February 1, 2006 12:46:58 AM
>> No, it's also a matter of where a musician wants to put his time and
>> effort. For Mr. Still, the ability to wiggle one's fingers fast was
>> not what playing the oboe was about. The same goes for Mr. Bloom and
>> many, many other great oboists, American, English, European, whatever.
>>
>> It's really about the different personalities involved. It's one
>> person comparing another's priorities to his own and saying, "I don't
>> understand why that is his priority."
>>
>> You should not say such things about people who were giants in their
>> time. It's rude and very disrespectful. Yes, this is a flippant
>> comment that does not reflect well on the person who *allegedly* made
>> it. But that does not give you or anyone else on this list the right
>> to insult Mr. Still.
>>
>> Your comments to not add anything to rational discourse.
>> Rhondda May
>> Hong Kong
>>
>> On 1 Feb 06, at 6:29 AM, Wai Kit Leung wrote:
>>
>> Of course I know very well factors other than reeds affect the tone
>> one produces on the oboe (or on the bassoon for that matter). Does
>> that make Mr. Still any more capable of approaching Mr. Holliger's
>> virtuosity on the oboe? Brighter tone --> faster technique? I don't
>> think so.
>>
>> A bit of sour grape from a less capable (but by no means not good)
>> oboist I suppose.
>>
>> Wai Kit Leung
>>
>>
>>
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