| Brought to you this hour by |  | Advertising and Web Hosting on Woodwind.Org! |
Doublereed Archive - Posting 000095.txt from 2004/10
From: Keith Sklower <sklower@-----.EDU>
Subj: Re: [DR-L] Re: Ideal woodwind theory and oboe playing
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:49:46 -0400
}From: "Angela Wells" <oneflute1oboe@-----.com>
}Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 08:03:23 -0700
}Hi everyone,
Hi Angela!
You sent a thought provoking post to the list, and I'ld like to
respond to *some* of it. The are are not only technical issues,
but interpersonal or political ones involved.
}I remember reading on this list a while back something about what pitch one
}should be blowing on the reed while playing the oboe. If I remember
}correctly, most of us agreed that somewhere around Bb is good. So, playing
}the reed without the oboe, Bb would be the sounding pitch, and the feeling
}of playing Bb on the reed should be transferred to playing the whole oboe.
My recollection of the conversation is somewhat different. I think
most people cited between B-flat and C, but I've heard from several
professionals who I trust, that if you make your reeds crow "C", that
you will have to do less compensation when you jump octaves, than if
your reeds crow at a lower pitch. The person I buy my reeds from,
who teaches at one of the conservatories in Boston, will even slip
the blades of the reeds from side to side decreasing the volume
contained between the blades in order to raise that pitch.
There is hardly ever consensus on the double reed mailing list about
anything, but we live in a pluralistic society and I think that that's
a "good thing" ;-)
}I also have a hazy recollection of someone saying that they give students
}exercises to play on the reed alone, sliding between Ab and C as well as
}moving between these notes in steps. The purpose of these excersises was to
}develop some kind of technique for rolling the reed in and out of the
}embouchure.
A fellow I studied with made me play some of yankee doodle, and also
wanted me to get 5 distinct levels of loudness at the same pitch,
soft to loud to soft again on just the reed. He didn't specify
how it was to be achieved, and when I did it, it required changes
not only by rolling in and out, but also the amount of lip and air
pressure.
}Please do tell me if I've dreamed this all up. Also, if anyone disagrees or
}has any corrections to make, please do.
If anybody asserts that we are both dreaming, I have the impression
woodwind.org has a search tool . . .
}My problem is that I've been attending required weekly "woodwind
}masterclasses" at school which are usually given by a saxophone player.
}Everyone but the flutes are thrown in together. This particular saxophone
}professor has a wealth of knowlege about musical phrasing, but confuses us
}double reeds when he talks about technique.
}He had a sax student blow through only the mouthpiece and neck of the
}saxophone, demonstrating that the air and embouchure are independent of what
}note you're playing. Air and embouchure remain constant while you move your
}fingers.
}I learned in woodwind pedagogy that this is true for single reed
}instruments. However, this professor maintains that it's true for all wind
}instruments.
Phil Freihofner posted on Sat Sept 4th on the differences between
oboe and clarinet cited a text book,
"The physics of musical instruments / Neville H. Fletcher, Thomas D. Rossing."
and a diagram therein showing that for a given loudness level,
clarinets require 5kPa of pressure at all pitches whereas oboe varied
from 5-12.
{I went and looked up the reference in U.C. Berkeley's
online catalogue, and there appear to be 3 editions of the book
(1991, 1993, 1998); Phil didn't say which edition had the table on
page 483, so it depends on how combative the saxophone professor is
on whether he's going to believe you if you bring in the citation
without the book.)
}I challenged him. I showed how several pitches can be blown on an oboe reed,
}and demonstrated how we use this for intonation purposes as well as for
}extreme registers. He tried to prove me wrong and managed to confuse me
}thoroughly.
And now we get to the political (and possibly gender, and ageist) issues:
If he is shown to be wrong in front of other people, he may *feel* his
ability to teach other things may be compromised. Even though this
is not necessarily the case, the moment he felt he was confronted,
he probably became less rational. (And he may not have even realized
consciously that he felt threatened). Depending on what part of the
country this was, him being a guy and you not, and him being older,
might also have increased his combativeness.
He might be more open-minded if you approach him on a 1-1 basis
outside of class.
}It seems that his point is true to a certain extent when applied to the
}oboe. We tend to overcompensate, and do too many wacky things with our air
}and embouchure while our fingers flail about. But I still feel that
}embouchure compensation is needed. I know that I have to sacrifice a certain
}amount of stability in my reeds to get them to where they're not hard as
}brick, sharp, and thin sounding.
Talking about pluralism, there is an ENORMOUS varieity of oboe reed making
styles. I bought some reeds from Fred Capps once, and wish I were rich
enough to buy them on a regular basis. His reeds are pretty easy to blow,
but EXTREMELY STABLE. I couldn't get them to play quite as loudly
as the reeds that I normally use, but I could play them more softly
(so there was as much of a potential dynamic range, but just not the
same dynamic range). Those reeds required very, very little lip
pressure and sounded fabulous. (They also seemed to require having
more reed in your mouth).
}On one hand, I tell myself that he's a sax player and doesn't really know
}squat about the oboe. Obviously his idea cannot apply entirely to the flute,
}where there is no ocave key and you have to change *something* other than
}fingerings to get the differnent octaves.
I've also played a little flute, and have been told by more than one
teacher (separated by 1000 miles and 25 years) that you make can octave
jumps happen by pushing your lower jaw *forward*, decreasing the amount
of over-bite, but that *is* an embrochure change.
}So, it's possible that along the
}spectrum of wind instruments, parts of the idealism get lost.
}On the other hand, I wonder if there are oboists who subscribe to a theory
}like his. I already know what my own teacher thinks. What about you?
I had *one* lesson with the fellow who I buy my reeds from; (I don't
get to travel much and he's on the opposite coast). He demonstrated
being able to jump octaves rapidly from middle C to high C with almost
no change in lip or air pressure and the octaves being pretty much in
tune. Of course the upper octave wasn't as loud or as beautiful-sounding
as the lower one. So, we'll have to be a little more specific in
delineating exactly what theory were talking about:
A.) It is possible to play double reed instruments with *no* changes
in air or embrouchure, or
B.) It is desireable to reduce the amount of compensatory changes we make.
I think the Fletcher citation shows A.) to be demonstrably false.
On the other hand, if you want to actually perform and get through
the Strauss oboe concerto without your face falling off, you might
want to make compromises so that your reeds require more in the
way of air pressure support than lip variation. (Or so I seemed
to gather at a master class given by Elaine Duvos).
}What about the person who wants their students to develop embouchure rolling
}facility? Am I completely misinterpreting the point of that?
It is one of several tools we can employ. I rediscovered that recently
while practicing Stravinksi's Pulicinella suite where you have to jump
down from a high C to middle with the upper being louder in 2 sixteens
worth of time.
}All discussion is appreciated. :-)
I've probably pontificated enough . . . and considering I'm only
an eager amateur, hereby yield the floor to more knowledgeable
Jane's and Joe's....
---------------------------------------------------------------------
For personal help: email doublereed-owner@-----.org
Doublereed is a service of Woodwind.Org, Inc. http://www.woodwind.org
