Doublereed Archive - Posting 000031.txt from 2003/05

From: David Lurie <david.lurie@-----.net>
Subj: Re: [DR-L] opening throat upper register oboe
Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 17:51:21 -0400

At 04:02 PM 5/3/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi -
>
>This is a reply to David Lurie's response to my previous email (dated May
>3, 11:41 with the same subject). This is a great discussion, and I realize
>that there are lots of schools of thoughts and lots of different
>successful professionals. I believe my thinking follows the basic ideas
>presented by Joseph Robinson ("Oboists, Exhale Before Playing") filled in
>with information gleaned studying the psychophysics of music in my college
>days.

I agree, this is a pretty good discussion that's going on here. At least
there's respect and no vituperation nor depreciation of anyone's differing
POV. Further, I find it quite interesting that the various people mentioned
in these exchanges Sprenkle, Gomberg, Robinson etc are all - with the
exception of Whitney Tustin - all members of the same basic school of oboe
playing.

> >(DL)
> >Well, I think that pronouncing - or really attempting to pronounce - vowels
> >during the playing of the instrument has not much to do with how open or
> >not the throat is. The vowel pronunciation takes place mostly in the most
> >anterior part of the mouth during playing, and does not affect much one way
> >or other how the throat is expanded or contracted. This latter has more to
> >do with the amount of air pressure generated from below.
>
>There is a great article in Scientific American: "The Acoustics of the
>Singing Voice" by Johan Sundberg, March 1977, (reprinted in "The Physics
>of Music"), in which the mouth and throat are diagrammed. In looking at
>this, it is clear the tongue goes back as far as the epiglottis (which is
>just below the uvula), but no more. There are some supporting diagrams of
>tongue positions for various vowels, which indicate that the position of
>the posterior of the tongue does play a role, particularly in the second
>and fourth vocal formants.

While I realize you are using the foregoing as an illustration of basic
anatomy, as I indicated before, I don't think a valid comparison can be
made between singing and oboe playing.

> >I do not understand at all how the tongue can be used "....as a source of
> >support/vibrato...".
>
>I think that our normal concept of the tongue is that it does its thing in
>the front of the mouth, and that the posterior actions of the tongue have
>been overlearned to the point where we are not usually conscious of them.
>Something like gargling is presumed to be caused by a constriction of the
>"throat" (in combination with blowing air through the restricted opening)
>rather than the tongue. But in fact, it is the base of the tongue that is
>doing the restricting. (Though for all intents and purposes, using the
>word "throat" for the base of the tongue may be a reasonable pedagogy.)
>
>I have to admit, I do not understand "throat vibrato," but I suspect the
>base of the tongue is somehow engaged, or else, it occurs in the uppermost
>portion of the chest (high enough that it feels throatlike?) or some
>combination. The exterior muscles of the neck may feel engaged, but their
>actual point of action may be at either end where the muscles are rooted
>(jaws, chest). I don't know whether the
>larynx or pharynx can have their spacial dimensions altered. I suspect
>not, but I don't have a reference or source on this and could be quite wrong.
>
> >>(PF)
> >>A common beginner problem: mistakenly thinking that a fixed, tense
> >>abdominal squeezing can be used for all playing situations. However, when
> >>the high, loud notes go flat, as they will in a fixed-support situation
> >>relative to middle register notes, these players have to resort to some
> >>other source of support, e.g. tongue/throat, clenching cheeks, shoulders,
> >>anything to prop up the pitch. Better and simpler to use a dynamically
> >>changing amount of abdominal pressure depending upon the need.
>
> >(DL)
> >That sounds about right, although I don't understand why the pressure
> >should be changed. The only way to ensure that those negative things you
> >mention do not happen, especially sagging pitch in the high notes, is to
> >have a reed with sufficient resistance so that all that other stuff you
> >mention can not even occur. Those things all happen because of insufficient
> >resistance in the reed. It may be that the student has to blow a little
> >harder, but the vastly superior results of doing so make the effort well
> >worth while.
>
>
> >(DL)
> >I believe that the only reason for using differing amounts of embouchure
> >pressure is to dampen the effects of the vibrating reed. IOW to narrow the
> >size of the reed opening, and therefore to soften the volume of sound,
> >everything else remaining the same. This should not affect the pitch or
> >many other factors involved in the sound production.
>
>Increasing embouchure pressure does dampen the volume, but it also drives
>up the pitch. That's part of why students bite to get the high notes in
>tune (to compensate for the lack of extra support the higher registers
>require). On a decrescendo, I think many people have learned to compensate
>for the pitch increase (caused by the tightening embouchure) by decreasing
>the breath support a fractional amount, and may even have overlearned this
>to where it is no longer a conscious act. (Or they just go sharp on
>decrescendos.)

I want to make an important distinction here. The phrase "increasing
embouchure pressure" can be ambiguous, because it can get confused with
biting. AFAIC, biting is a total no no. It results from playing on reeds
that have openings that are either too large, or that are flat to begin
with, or any number of other problems. Biting is an automatic physical
response to those conditions. There is another sense in which the term is
used which is the one I mean, and that is done by surrounding the tip of
the reed with the musculature of the embouchure so as to close the opening
and dampen the vibrations of the reed WITHOUT biting. It is a way of
gathering the lip muscles together to cover the surface of the reed more
fully. It also may require a flexibility to move in and out of the mouth -
again without biting - so as to raise the pitch particularly on the high notes.

>Thus both embouchure and breath support are subject to adjustment. This
>adjustment is within a given range, and perhaps for pedagocical purposes,
>just getting students to stay within range is a good first goal. But
>eventually, I think the best way of thinking about the process is the "X"
>diagram (the relationship of bite & breath over volume while maintaining
>correct pitch) which Robinson credits to Tabuteau. I'd just like to add a
>note-level component to that graph, to illustrate the different registers
>on the oboe.

I would like to read this. Can you tell me where I can find it, please?
Thank you.

David Lurie