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Doublereed Archive - Posting 000019.txt from 2003/05
From: "Eddie Ludema" <ludema@-----.net>
Subj: RE: [DR-L] opening throat upper register oboe
Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 11:26:33 -0400
My student's challenge was that the "throat" itself would not
actually influence the air stream. We discussed it for a while,
and I've been keeping him up to speed on all your thought. We've
tentatively come to the conclusion together that using that term
accomplishes two things:
1) Relaxes the muscles in the throat, and although that probably
doesn't influence the air directly, it will affect the quality of
sound by relaxing other things as well (my brass player husband
feels that trying to play with an "open throat" loosens the
tension from throat to lips). I'm still experimenting on this
one... it doesn't seem logical to me that the muscles of the
throat influence the air inside the trachea, but there is a
difference in sound, so it has to be influencing something.
2) Lowers the back of the tongue and raises the soft pallet...
which allows greater air flow and control. This is what happens
in a yawn, this is what singers are harping about all the time.
This produces a noticeable difference in sound (and can also
loosen the embouchure in a student who's clamping).
My physician student told me that the trachea is not a flexible
track (it can go up and down like an accordian, but not in and
out). If I push on mine from the outside, it seems pretty hard
and doesn't move. But you can make it voluntarily longer or
shorter. The vocal chords concept is interesting, but I learned
while singing that when you're not making noise the vocal chords
are open and relaxed. I'm not sure if you can close and open them
slightly while not making noise... I'm going to do some research
on that.
Thanks everyone for your opinions! This kind of debate is fun for
me (I'm sure quite a few people are finding it boring). Love this
list!
Beth
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: David Lurie <david.lurie@-----.net>
Reply-To: doublereed-l@-----.edu
Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 11:53:50 -0400
>At 03:00 PM 5/1/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>
>>I have to jump in here. Could someone explain the physical
properties
>>behind an open throat ? The trachea can t actual expand and
contract can
>>it? And moving all the other stuff in the throat (swelling of
the neck,
>>etc.) shouldn t affect the air stream any, or does it?
>
>Without getting into the detailed anatomy of this, which I am
incompetent
>to do in any case, it is easy to see "all the other stuff" that
you refer
>to move even if you only do something so simple as to blow on a
reed. If
>you blow hard enough on the reed, you can observe the outside of
the neck
>physically swelling to a larger size. The importance of this is
that it
>makes a difference to playing music on the oboe if the air stream
is
>altered by the neck/throat changing size during playing. This can
be heard
>if you listen carefully enough. The effect is one of
inconsistency in the
>musical line. Having a reed that is sufficiently resistant is one
of
>several steps that can be taken to solving this problem.
>
>> I understand how the mouth would affect things, and perhaps
the opening
>> of the throat at the point where it connects to the mouth (I
don t know
>> if that can be controlled voluntarily or not).
>
>IMO, there may be a little - but very little - voluntary control
over it.
>
>> What actually opens or closes , and does the swelling of the
neck
>> actually affect the air? I ve used the term open your throat
myself for
>> a long time, but one of my students (a physician, actually),
challenged
>> me on it recently. I promised to do some research, and this is
a good
>> opportunity. Any answers?
>
>I would like to know what was your student's challenge?
>
>
>David Lurie
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: doublereed-l-admin@-----.edu
>>[mailto:doublereed-l-admin@-----.edu] On Behalf Of David
Lurie
>>Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 1:27 PM
>>To: doublereed-l@-----.edu
>>Subject: Re: [DR-L] opening throat upper register oboe
>>
>>
>>
>>I would like to add my 2 cents here. this subject has come up
before, but
>>I don't recall any resolution to it, and there probably is no
resolution
>>to it as long as different system of playing are used. What you
describe I
>>believe is one of the basic differences between one of the
European
>>systems and the American system of oboe playing. So of course
there are
>>going to be some fundamental factors involved here. I will speak
about
>>what I learned in the American system, in which the throat must
be as open
>>as possible at all times. This allows the production of a
ringing vibrant
>>tone quality that is well supported and which sounds solid. In
order to
>>accomplish this, there must be sufficient resistance in the reed
so that
>>when you blow, it forces the tissues in the throat to remain in
an open
>>position. IOW, a fairly resistant reed is required, to prevent
any
>>activity in the throat - muscles which could only cause it to
close and
>>which would interfere with the production of an open sound. The
muscles in
>>that area of the body are under very little voluntary control,
so there's
>>not much that can be done with them except to interfere with
column of air
>>by closing it down. When this happens - with a less resistant
reed - it
>>is possible to produce a throat vibrato, although that
represents an
>>interference with the sound, not an integral part of it, which
the vibrato
>>should be. Vibrato is of course a separate although closely
related subject.
>>
>>In this system, the reed should allow the use of a full column
of air and
>>a feeling of something fairly substantial to push against when
blowing. If
>>it is done correctly, this will cause the outside of the neck to
enlarge
>>and be visibly larger. The neck should stay that way during the
entire
>>time the instrument is being played - and constitutes proof that
the
>>throat is really fully open. In this system, if the neck/throat
>>combination is used to modify the sound, then it will have a
definite
>>affect on the tone quality - in my opinion a negative one.
>>
>>David Lurie
>>
>>At 06:22 AM 5/1/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>>
>>Dear oboists,
>>
>>I'm a little confused about the opening of the throat while
oboe playing.
>>My teacher -whom I adore and is really very good!!!- took
lessons with T.
>>Indermuhle and M. Bourgue and he teached me an exercise to
create a
>>brilliant tone in the upper register: just take you're reed out
of your
>>instrument and blow a c on it (not crowing, but playing). Then,
by
>>changing only the opening of you're throat (making it smaller)
move on to
>>a cis and d without changing the lippressure!! Then play on the
>>instrument the upper register with the narrow opening and the
lower
>>register with a more open throat. My big problem however is dat
when I
>>"close" my throat to play the notes in te upper register with
more
>>brilliance and energy, the pitch is much too high. My teacher
says this is
>>because my lip pressure is maybe to high, but when I play a high
c and I
>>don't change my lips and only the opening in my throat,its pitch
is
>>ascending too!!(and this is only a logical result o! f the
exercise I
>>think, since the pitch is also rising while making the opening
in you're
>>throat smaller when playing on the reed alone)
>>In panic I consulted the internet about this subject and I did
find an
>>interesting article about it:
>><http://www.idrs.org/publications/Journal/JNL4/oboe.html>http://w
ww.idrs.org/publications/Journal/JNL4/oboe.html
>>Unfortunately I'm more confused, since it stresses the
importance to play
>>with on open throat all up to the upper register with a high
speed of air.
>>The throat should always be open, this article says.
>>Since the director of the orchestra in which I 'm playing also
asks an
>>open throat I'm desorientated in my oboe playing what's going on
about my
>>throat. Please, can someone help me?
>>
>>Thanks a lot,
>>Marianne
>>
>>
>>
>>
>><http://us.rd.yahoo.com/search/mailsig/*http:/search.yahoo.com>Th
e New
>>
>>
>
>
>
